Is the Pointing Lab the Most Versatile Dog on the Planet? — Troy Benson & the American Pointing Lab Association

Full transcript for Episode 55: (Ep. 55) Troy Benson & The American Pointing Lab Association. Is the pointing lab the most versatile dog on the planet?.

Tyce

Hey everyone, welcome to the Bird Dog Podcast. Thanks for listening in today. in this podcast, we had a gentleman on by the name of Troy Benson. He's the president of the APLA, the American Pointing Lab Association. this was a fun podcast. I have not done it for a little while, but I was heavily involved in the APLA, where I have pointing labs myself, and I still have them to this day, and I was able to run dogs all the way through, certified, advanced, master, grandmaster. I have not done the Triple Crown, which is, pretty cool, , where you c- keep pushing that dog further past the grandmaster level. And, in, in this, podcast with Troy, we talk, we do talk about the Triple Crown, we talk about pointing labs, and we talk about all the, all that the APLA is doing. So if you're interested in pointing labs or looking at possibly getting a dog for yourself in the future that's versatile, I would definitely listen to this podcast. and, and, a side note, wanna thank again you guys for listening. If you have just some plugs here, check out gunshyfix, dot com. If you're having some gun issues with your dog or you wanna get your puppy started off on the right track, this is a really good approach to do some desensitization work on your dog, prep him for guns. And so when you do a proper gun intro in the field, that should hopefully go a lot smoother instead of, just going out and, and banging away around your dog. So we've had some great success with it, people putting it to use. So, go ahead and give it a try. It's, like, 40 bucks, so it's really not that much money, to... and it's worth investing your dog, and it, and it helps us out. So, appreciate you guys' support there. If you're looking for a really good indoor cot, or even a cot outdoors for your dog, if it-- your dog is a completely outdoor dog, you still wanna obviously have shade or cover over your, over your kennel, but the cot's nice to get your dog up off the ground, let them cool down, have the air flow down, down around them And, they're the best ones that we have found is Kuranda, K-U-R-A-N-D-A. I think they have a one-year warranty, I believe, on their, cots. double-check that in the com- , in the, on their, website. But, even if, you have a dog that's just an absolute destroyer, you can... The main bed part is super easy. You unbolt some bolts in the corners, boop, boop, and slide a new, cot in there, and you're, got a brand-new bed essentially for your dog. So, and they're, reasonably priced. So if you ch- go into the link on the, the podcast and purchase a cot through there, it helps us out. So we really appreciate you guys, looking into that. Also, NuVet. If you're wanting to give your dog optimal health, check out NuVet, N-U-V-E-T, and, click on that link. That again helps us out. And, they have some great supplements for older dogs, for joints, and then also young dogs. the young dog, it's all cold, hard-pressed. I know vitamins and stuff like that can be a little tricky to, to track in a dog's life, right? Like, "Oh, if I give my dog these, is my dog gonna live longer or is it not?" But my thought process is it's not gonna hurt to put just good stuff, obviously, in our bodies and our animals' bodies to give them optimal performance and health. So NuVet makes some great products, so check them out. and, click on the link if you go and purchase that. I would recommend, I think it's NuVet+ is their just normal supplement. It's a wafer you put in their food every day. the dogs like eating them. And, yeah, and you're gonna give your dog a lot of healthy stuff in their diet. A lot of our dog food is obviously cooked to a high temperature to preserve it when it's put in a bag, and so it does kill some of that, Good stuff that can be in there anytime you cook something to a high level. So this cold press stuff, it maintains some of those health benefits. so if you wanna give that a try, go ahead and check them out and, use our link. Again, that, that benefits us. to follow us, you can check out the Birddog Podcast, on Instagram. we also are, are just about ready to launch a website that'll have that on there, plus all the episodes on there. so you're welcome to, check that out too. And then if you're looking for, a nice retriever, Labrador retriever or a golden retriever, our golden retrievers, fieldbredgoldenretrievers.com, and you can check those out. we do have a female, we just confirmed pregnancy. We kinda had a little window where we had some old dogs age out, and we have some new ones that are coming in and getting titled. And so in the next year or two, hopefully we'll be having a handful more of litters, for you guys if you're interested in getting a hunting golden. They're just wonderful dogs. They're beautiful to look at, and it's fun when you have a, one of these dog a hunting, like, hunting golden that actually enjoys retrieving and doing the work, either upland or waterfowl or whatever you're looking for. And we try to match those dogs, with our clients. We, we have our clients fill out a, a, a puppy request form, and then within that, you s- tell us what you're wanting, kinda your lifestyle, about you guys, and then we actually don't do first, second, third, fourth pick. We actually place the puppy with you. So some people might like, "Ah, I don't like that," but we spend the time with the dogs. We know the parents. We spend the time with the puppies and, and we do an evaluation test to check a bunch of different markers on the animal and how they respond to certain things, and drive and desire and retrieve and confidence and, independentness and just a bunch of markers that we try to look as a puppy and then say, "Okay, w- we're gonna match this with this person that hunts twice a year." This dog might have a little... Maybe if it's a little lower drive per se, this could be a better fit or maybe a little more calm personality. This one, man, it's a f- fire-breathing dragon. let's go ahead and put him with this young single guy that's said he's gonna hunt two or three days a week. and that dog's gonna get out and get worked that much more. So ultimately though, we do try to breed these animals so they are just level-headed, have as much of an off switch as we can, but still maintain the drive and desire that we like in them. And so they really, ideally every litter out of our breeding program should hopefully pr- be a dog that someone would be happy with, a nice, just a good hunting family dog. So anyhow, thanks again for tuning in and checking out these, different things that help us out, and I hope you guys enjoy this podcast, and we'll, and we'll see you in the next one

Tyce

All right, folks, welcome to the Bird Dog Podcast. My name is Tyce Erickson and I'll be your host. today I have a special guest with us on the podcast. His name is, Troy Benson. Troy, do you wanna go ahead and say hi to everyone?

Troy

Hello, everyone.

Tyce

I said that right, Benson, right?

Troy

Yes, you did.

Tyce

We were, we, I, I was supposed to get on this podcast with Troy about, 40 minutes ago, but my, podcasting equipment was having some issues, so I'm a little, a little scrambled here to get him on, but I think we- I think we got it figured out. So, yeah, I really appreciate your, your patience and thanks for coming on,

Troy

so. Absolutely, not a problem at all.

Tyce

So Troy is the president of the APLA or the American Appoint- Pointing Lab Association, who, I've been part of and did a lot of APLA stuff, years ago. So we wanted to jump on and talk about pointing labs and the APLA. And, so that's kind of a brief overview what we're gonna, talk about today, these amazing animals. And, and, we're gonna, we're gonna dive into it. But Troy, give us, give us a background of your, how you got into all this, man. Did you have dogs when you were a little kid and, or did you get it, get into them when you were older? How'd you get into the pointing lab? Give us a brief overview. tell us about you, I guess.

Troy

Yeah, no problem. Yeah, I, I, when I was a, when I was a kid, yeah, my, my, my dad would take us hunting, and we never had a dog. but my uncles did. My uncles and my dad's friends had dogs, and I was just enamored with them. I, I couldn't get, I was just, couldn't understand how it all worked, obviously, when I was young and, but I was really, really interested to watch them and just to see them work and that kind of stuff. So that kind of piqued my interest at that age. You know, I was probably, I was done, I was not even old enough to carry a gun yet, but we went hunting with our dad all the time, so.

Tyce

Mm-. Mm-.

Troy

, that kind of grew as I got older. always kind of just really wanted to have a dog. And so when I was, you know, probably 18 years old or so is when I got my first dog and, and really just kind of started going from there and, reading everything I could. You know, back then there weren't, there was no YouTube or anything like that. So read a lot of books, read a lot of magazines, a lot of articles, a lot of different stuff, about, tips and techniques on how to get started. And so that's kinda how I got into dog to start with.

Tyce

What kind of dogs did you guys, did, you said your uncles had dogs, right? What kind of dogs were those?

Troy

Yeah, it was always kind of a really interesting mix. That, there was almost always a couple of labs. , then, another guy had a setter and then another guy had a springer. So it was always kind of an eclectic mix of, of different kinds of hunting dogs that they had. But yeah, there was a... It was, you could always kind of tell which ones were the good ones and which ones were, or which ones had been worked with and, and time spent with them, and the other ones that were just kind of out there, chasing the other dogs for the most part, so.

Tyce

Yeah. Did, Are, do- was this mostly upland hunting, waterfowl hunting? What did you get, what did you do

Troy

during the months? It was, it was a lot of both. Yeah, we did a lot of both, a lot of ducks and a, and a lot of pheasant hunting here in southwest Minnesota. obviously it's just like anywhere else, but our pheasant population is actually pretty good around here, most of the time, unless we have, you know, kind of a downswing or whatever. But-

Tyce

-huh

Troy

, as of right now, it's probably as good as it's ever been.

Tyce

, but- Oh, that's good

Troy

to hear yeah, lots of, lots of really good bird numbers around here, so.

Tyce

Is there much public land out there? Is it pretty much private, or what's the, what's that look like?

Troy

, there's, there is a good, like, in my neck of the woods where I live here, there's quite a bit, of, of public. there's probably just as much private, as well, I guess. But, bird numbers-wise, you know, we, we see a, a fair amount of people from, the heavier populated areas come out here to, to pheasant hunt and that kind of stuff. So we obviously have, have good bird numbers comparatively to the rest of the parts of the state, so.

Tyce

What's the limit a day? Is it two or three, three, two or three birds a day- It's- or what is it?

Troy

Yeah, it's two until, I believe it's December.

Tyce

-huh.

Troy

And then it goes to three.

Tyce

Interesting. How- So,

Troy

yeah, I don't know. They've, they've toyed with it a number of different times trying to figure it out, but yeah, late in the season I think it's like the last month you can shoot three.

Tyce

Is it just 'cause less people are in the field, so they increase that, do you think? Or why,

Troy

what's the- It could be that. I, it could be the, the fact that it, you know, when you get to December they're harder to get anyway. Yeah. I don't know.

Tyce

Yeah.

Troy

, I really, you know, I guide pheasant hunting in South Dakota, so I work for a lodge, so I guide probably 55 to 60 days a year, and by the time I get home from that back here to the state of Minnesota, I don't, I'm not that mad at a pheasant anymore to go chase them after 60 days- Yeah of chasing them, so.

Tyce

That makes, that makes sense. What's the habitat like out there that you're hunting them in? Is it tules or grass, or what are they, what are you getting them in mostly?

Troy

Yeah. Here it's, it's a lot of sloughs. You know, it's a lot of slough. Pasture. That, you know, especially if you're gonna hunt in December, if, you know, if, if it's cold enough, the cattails are typically some of the best places- They're probably, right

Tyce

to hunt.

Troy

Yeah. but you gotta be careful obviously, 'cause if the water's, you know, not frozen or whatever, it can be dangerous or whatever, but, for you and your dog. But, yeah, for the most part around here, it's a lot of grass, it's a lot of CRP. Yeah. willows and stuff like that, but yeah.

Tyce

Makes sense. Seems like late season that's where a lot of them go is th- and not much- Oh, yeah land around the lakes, just thick and dense and they can hide up in there, and- Yeah where a lot of the grass gets knocked down and it's open, you know? Yeah.

Troy

And once it, once you get, you know, any snow basically on the ground, they're all grouped up, so. Yeah. They group up and then they can hear you coming from mile away. You gotta, you almost gotta kinda hunt them on days when it's windy and they can't hear anything, so.

Tyce

For sure. Okay, so a lot of listeners probably don't even know maybe what a pointing lab is. Tell, tell us about the pointing la- Well, tell us about when you, when you first got your pointing lab and how you got into pointing labs, and then maybe tell us- Sure kind of what the pointing lab is.

Troy

Yeah, so it, kind of just by chance when I was, up in Moorhead, Minnesota, you know, college age type stuff, I really missed pheasant hunting, and it was just too expensive for me to drive home all the time to do it. so, just by chance, I went to a, a game farm, and paid them to put birds out for me and, and, you know, I said, "I don't have a dog," you know, or whatever, 'cause at that point I didn't.

Tyce

Yeah.

Troy

, and as I, you know, living in an apartment or whatever, you didn't have the opportunity to have a dog for the most part. So, the guy that owned the property or the, the preserve or whatever it would've been called back then, actually had a set of dogs. -huh. And they were both, you know, just normal looking n- they, they were labs.

Tyce

Yeah.

Troy

I mean, I think they were maybe part British, but I don't, you know.

Tyce

Sure.

Troy

, but he took me out hunting and worked the dogs for me, and they both locked up like crazy. And I was just, I couldn't get en- I, I was blown away. You know, I'd never really seen it. I, I had seen it in magazine, you know, when you go into like Gun Dog Magazine back- Sure back in those days. And, you know, all the ads in the back of the, you know, pointing lab this, pointing lab that. And I was like, "I, I don't even know what that means." But when I f- when I saw it in person, I was like, "I gotta figure out how to get one."

Tyce

-huh. So- Yeah

Troy

so at that point, I started doing quite a bit of research and, and got, got my first one and Just kind of started the, started the adventure from there

Tyce

Do you have any idea what bloodlines those two were out of?

Troy

They were, yeah, no, no, n- nothing special. They weren't out of anything special. The guy just, he'd bought them from somebody else, and he said, "No, they just..." He never even called them pointing labs. He didn't.

Tyce

Did they kind of lock up or hold or something?

Troy

They would, they would lock up and hold until you walked in, and the bird would fly-

Tyce

That's awesome

Troy

on their own, and he wasn't training them to do that. He, he said, "Yeah, they just do that." He goes, "I think it's just a game they're playing with themse- you know, with the birds." You know? I'm like, "Yeah, I don't think that's what's going on, but whatever," you know? It was-

Tyce

Yeah

Troy

it was super interesting to me, and I, I couldn't get enough of it, so I started doing research on how to, how to, how to find one for myself, and I ended up getting one, oh, probably a year later when I moved into a, a place where I could have a dog.

Tyce

Mm-.

Troy

, and I got my first ever pointing lab at that point, and that was, that dog was out of, Black Forest's, Cajun.

Tyce

Okay. So. Yeah. Cool.

Troy

Yeah. Long time ago.

Tyce

Your story is kind of like mine. I had a black lab that was out of- You know, a purebred, no line. You know, I di- I didn't know anything about pointing Labs or pointing lines, and then I- Right I, yeah, I was hunting around pheasants one day, and it was kind of, there was snow, and the birds were holding tight, and all of a sudden she just started locking up and, and on these birds. And I was like, "What the heck? This is the coolest thing I've ever seen," you know, just being- Yeah like a duck dog plus a dog that would po- you know, a lab that would hold a point on them, you know? And- Yeah and, and when she passed away, that's when I, you know, ended up di- like you, diving more into, like, do people... Are actually pointing La- Labs that point? And I started doing research and hearing about it and, and that's how I, that's how I initially got my love, too, is I've, obviously the versatility of the, you know- Yeah the pointing Lab, but then I was- Yeah a waterfowl hunter, too, and so I loved it. Yeah. You know, it just, it's something. It's just fun, you know? It's just cool to see it-

Troy

Yeah

Tyce

lock up. And I, I do enjoy a good flusher, and I enjoy a good pointer- Oh, yeah but-

Troy

Yep ,

Tyce

you know, the pointing Lab, you know, that's how I got into it, and then got into, like, titling them and, and all that, and all that stuff, you know?

Troy

Yeah.

Tyce

So it's just fun.

Troy

Yeah. I, I had, I, it's, I, I, my journey was a little bit like that, too. Like, when I got my first one, you know, I had no idea what I was doing or whatever, and just kind of kept working at it and kept working at it, and luckily he was, he was, a very forgiving dog. He, I mean, I wasn't ever... You know, he, he was just like, you could clearly tell that he was like, "I don't know what he's trying to do here," but he,

Tyce

Yeah

Troy

he's got, he's got, he, I'll help him figure it out, so.

Tyce

Yeah.

Troy

But that was, I, the, at that, that point, I was like, I started doing some research into titling, putting some titles on him for pointing like that. And that's, that's when I got involved in the, that's when I first got involved in the APLA.

Tyce

Yeah. So tell us a little bit more, but I guess we didn't get into your background. You train, is that what, you train professionally, right?

Troy

Correct. That's correct. Yeah.

Tyce

That's what you do for your main day job? Yep.

Troy

Yeah. So yeah. So I, you know, living here in Minnesota, I don't, I don't take a winter trip like some people do. I have, I have a couple of, little girls, so-

Tyce

Sure

Troy

, I don't- That's right I don't go south. But, from March until the end of September, I'm training full time. and then once the end of September comes, I load up and I go out west for two, two and a half months and then come back home and,

Tyce

- That's where you're guiding that, during that time of year?

Troy

Yeah. Yep, guiding pheasant hunting out there, yeah

Tyce

So do you train, you can give us a little plug about your training business. I know we talked offline and you said you're about as busy as you wanted to be, but what, what's the name of your training business? Do you only train pointing labs? Do you train everything? Tell us a little bit about that.

Troy

Sure. Yeah. It's, North Star Pointing Labs is the name of my, of the name of my business. Been in business since 2003, so a while now. - Yeah we train, I would say like the bulk of the dogs that we get in are pointing labs.

Tyce

Okay.

Troy

, but we do train all kinds of different-- I, I've trained, I've trained A- anything from a standard poodle to a Boykin waters spaniel. Mm-. You know, so, you know, and, and everything in between. L- but a lot of pointing breeds, honestly. I get more pointing breeds, I think, than I do, anything else.

Tyce

Yeah.

Troy

If, if I, if I do get a versatile type dog in, they're, they're definitely pointing breeds most of the time, so, -

Tyce

Okay. I assume you guys breed too. I didn't... I'd actually didn't get on your website before, so apologize, but-

Troy

Yeah, yeah yeah We, we have a handful of litters a year at the most. We don't, we don't, we don't do a ton of it. we like to keep our litters to be, you know, we, we don't breed a dog unless we have, you know, six deposits on, on a litter or whatever, so- Yeah, on p- performance on every form ,

Tyce

we have- Yeah.

Troy

Yeah. And t- to be really honest, that's, that's really the only reason that we do the breeding part of it, is to feed our training program. And, and we really like training dogs out of our, our-

Tyce

Stock

Troy

our breedings, just 'cause we kind of understand them-

Tyce

Sure. Yeah,

Troy

absolutely to a, to a little bit better level. - Yeah but we get, we get dogs in from all kinds of other stuff as well, and, and I really love watching that, and it's, it's, you know, I'm being involved in the APLA as long as I have been now between judging and running, and I'm very familiar with almost all of the bloodlines as... I would say for the most part, and-

Tyce

Sure

Troy

, and it's fun to be able to see some outside stuff, and then, you know, tr- maybe try to work out a way to work it back in, work it into your bloodlines down the, down the line- Sure in the future, so.

Tyce

Yeah. That, that is the one fun thing when I, I would gun a lot at the test that I helped put on here in Utah, and-

Troy

Yeah

Tyce

and it, when you're a gunner, it's fun because you get to... If you're not judging, gunning's the next best because you get to see all the dogs work, right? And you're like, "Holy, that thing has a super sweet point. Where'd that bloodline come from?" You know? Or you just see a good working dog, it, it kinda piques your interest. If you do any breeding, you're like, "I'd like to maybe have some of that in my program," you know? Yeah, absolutely. So... And then you see some, "Oh, okay, maybe that point's not as strong." You know, that's a decent dog, but it's just fun to see- Yeah all the, the differences and the training and the handlers and, and all- Yeah,

Troy

absolutely

Tyce

all that. Yep. Tell us about the APLA, when it got started, what it, what it's, what the mission is behind it. - Yeah give us an overview there.

Troy

Yeah, so the, the APLA, originated, I believe, in 1982. so probably, I think that's, if that's correct, which I think it is- Sounds about

Tyce

right, yeah actually

Troy

a, the year after I was born, so it's been around for a while. so the mission is to identify, certify, and promote the, the pointing Lab. so we have, at this point, we have, four different levels of titles. - Mm- and the, the beginning level being the certified, which is pretty much a natural ability test, where the dog has to point, for five seconds. Doesn't have to be steady or anything like that, and then has to do, a couple of simple water retrieves. so it just kinda shows us that the dog has the natural ability to be a pointing Lab. Yeah. -

Tyce

Troy, I'm gonna, I'm gonna plug in here real quick. Yeah. let's, I do wanna dive into the different categories there, and kinda what it takes, - Yeah for a minute. But something I think that's important about the pointing Lab, and if I'm not mistaken, is they do, they're not only trying to, they're not trying to produce these Labs to only point, but also do waterfowl, right? Like, - Correct we, we don't wanna lose the retrieve desire. And you know, when you see these dogs run AKC hunt tests, or field trials, or HRC- Mm- whatever it may be, you'd never know that they pointed per se, right? They still have all the amaz- Correct amazing retriever characteristics that we want, the looks, but you don't- Yeah see it really until you put them in the field, right?

Troy

Yeah. The only, like, so, and that, that's obviously, that's been something that's been, I, I guess kind of poohooed on by, by people for long periods of time. but it's- Yeah starting to get w- way, way less was, well, those pointing Labs, they're not good retrievers. You know, that's, you know, you've heard that. People have said- Yeah that all over the country. And like, but now you're seeing dogs have huge amounts of success in the Grand, in Master National.

Tyce

Mm-.

Troy

, you know, in field trials, you know, whether it's Quals, or Derbies, or whatever it ends up being. Yeah. and, and, so yeah, the, the pointing Lab is really absolutely no different than whatever you would call, you know, the standard Lab. Mm-. they're, they're bred to be retrievers first. and the pointing thing is just something that they happen to have as, as a genetic trait.

Tyce

Yeah. ,

Troy

so.

Tyce

Yeah, awesome. Thanks for repl- I thought that's maybe important just to kinda plug into- Yeah that a little bit, you know? Tell us, give us a brief, yeah, a brief overview again, sorry to cut you off, on just kinda the different- No, you're good levels, and, you don't have to go into obviously crazy details of the rules. Yeah,

Troy

no, I mean, it's, it's-

Tyce

But kinda give

Troy

us

Tyce

an overview easy.

Troy

Yeah. Yeah. The, the, the certified is the, is the natural ability one. Like I said, there's pretty, pretty basic stuff. and then you get into the APR, where, now you're doing a double on land and a double on water with a, a land blind and a water blind. and then master is, is the- Another step up from that, retriever-wise, , sorry, in the APL, i- in the APR for upland, they don't have to be steady to wing and shot, they just have to be, -

Tyce

Is it a 10-second count? I haven't ran it for a little bit, but-

Troy

Yeah, it's a, it's a 10-second count for APR, so they have to be steady for 10 seconds. and then-

Tyce

They used to not have a water blind. Is it still they

Troy

have to- Yeah, so the, so the water blind- they changed that? I might be getting ahead of myself a little bit there. That is actually going to be implemented for beginning of, the beginning of next year. - Okay so as of, as of right now, there isn't a water blind, but starting next spring there will be. ,

Tyce

so- So before, yeah, before when I ran, the certified was, like, two to three acres.

Troy

Yeah.

Tyce

Usually, like, three birds. Yeah. And then they usually had to point at least one of them just to show a natural point, right? And you can't, like- Mm- whoa them into a point, they gotta actually- Right lock up on their own, like

Troy

you say. Yeah, they, they, yeah. Yeah. They have to lock up on their own. You can't give them any steadying command until the dog has stopped moving and all that. so yeah, just, yeah, really at that level you're looking for a dog that has really good natural ability, right? I mean, that's-

Tyce

Yeah

Troy

you know, that's what you're looking for at, at the certified level. And then the, I, everybody, you know, well, until

Tyce

people come- Does it still retrieve within one step? Is that the certified-

Troy

Yeah, yeah. Okay. The retrieve is to within one step. I mean, don't see a ton of that-

Tyce

Yeah

Troy

for the most part, but, but it's, that, that's part of the rules for that. so that's... And then the, the water retrieve is, is, I believe it's within 50 yards and, and it's, you can hold the dog with a slip lead and that kind of stuff, and you can do that actually on unsimulated retrieves in the upland as well. You can hold them with a slip lead. 'Cause it's, for the most part, you're looking at a, a, at a young dog, at a puppy that's probably in the process of still getting trained, right? So-

Tyce

Yeah It's always fun on the, the certified level to watch those young dogs, and if they happen to catch a bird, usually that wasn't a good thing. But if they bumped them, usually you're gonna get a point on the next one or two.

Troy

Yeah. Yeah. It's always, yeah, it's always... And, I ran, I don't run a ton of certified dogs anymore, not-

Tyce

Yeah

Troy

not because I don't want to, I just, it's just not-

Tyce

Sure

Troy

, but, when I do, if they go out there and catch the, they go out there and catch the first bird, you're almost like, "Oh."

Tyce

They're gonna try to catch the rest.

Troy

No. And, every once in a while you'll get lucky and they'll point the next one, they'll point the last one. But yeah, it's always, boy, just let the birds get away from them, you know? But, and so- Yeah that's, that's actually really one of the more important parts of, training. but also at, at a test is, like, knowing how to plant a bird so the dog doesn't catch it.

Tyce

Mm.

Troy

You know? -

Tyce

Yep

Troy

which is, it's not always necessarily how you plan it. Sometimes the birds just don't fly very well, but.

Tyce

Yeah, yeah. So you have the certified level. Advanced level, yeah, give us a brief overview of that, kind of cover timeframe, points, and then-

Troy

Yeah yeah. so the ti- so the timeframe in the upland is 20 minutes. there's four birds out there. you're looking to get them to point as many as they possibly can, for 10 seconds. and the 10, after the 10 seconds, anything that happens after the 10 count, whether the dog catches the bird, you know, flushes the bird, w- or what have you- Mm- you know, they're, that, that's still allowed. the, the dog has to bring the bird back to you, delivered to hand in, in advanced. so in the upland that's pretty much it. in the retriever stuff, it's a double on land, and then, then a blind on land, and then starting next year it'll be a double on water and a water blind. the water blind is- Like a senior hunter yeah, it's gonna be pretty simple. You know, we're looking to have just, you know, sh- get- show us that the dog can handle in the water a little bit.

Tyce

Yeah.

Troy

You know, that, you know, just kind of a little bit more advanced stuff. And, you know, that's a, that's a conversation that we have a lot. You know, the biggest jump, everybody's like, "Well, the biggest jump is, you know, from advanced to master." And in my opinion, I don't believe that. I think the, the biggest jump is from certified to advanced. certified to advanced. Yeah that you're, you're going through so many more things- Mm- to get them ready just for the advanced test, so.

Tyce

It's like a junior to a senior, there's a lot. Yeah. That's a big jump. I- Absolutely senior to master's a little closer. It's just tightening some stuff.

Troy

Yeah, you're adding another mark or- Yeah you know, or another blind or however you're, you know. There's obviously there's, there's a lot of work that goes into it regardless.

Tyce

Mm-.

Troy

But the jump as far as the training that you're doing is, it's smaller I think from senior to master, I guess. But-

Tyce

Yeah. All right. Tell us about master and grand master.

Troy

Yeah. So master and grand master is, is the same test, it's just in order to get to grand master, you have to pass the test more. , so on the master, it's a double on land with a blind incorporated with the marks. - And, and the marks are, the, the marks are out to 100 yards- Mm- as well as the blind, and that's something that we continue to discuss, maybe altering some of this stuff, as we continue to, you know, work on different rule changes and stuff like that as we're moving forward. But, same thing on water, it's, it's about 100 yards. It's a double with a blind incorporated. i- it's, you know, if you're looking at it, most of the tests that we s- that we have now, is it's, it, for master, I would say it's, it's a senior hunter type-

Tyce

AKC, yeah ,

Troy

yeah, an AKC senior hunter type set of marks-

Tyce

Mm-

Troy

with a master hunter level type blind most of the time- Mm- is what you normally see. so it's, it's, it's a nice challenge, and then when you get through, you know, if you make it through the land and the water, you get to go to the upland. And, and, and in the upland, in master, that's really where the rubber meets the road. That's the hardest part by, by a long, long way is, 'cause in the master field in the upland, the dog cannot catch a bird. they can't willfully flush birds. you're allowed to willfully flush probably one bird in the master field. You know, anything other than that, you'd probably be scored, you, you wouldn't score high enough to pass. Mm-. so once they do s- lock up and point a bird, they have to be steady for 10 seconds, and then the, then the dog has to stay steady through wing and shot until they're sent. - Mm- and that's, there's four birds planted in the field. A field is typically between 5 to 10 acres, somewhere in there, just, and that obviously kind of depends on weather conditions and stuff like that as well, but, that's what we're, that's what we're trying to do. And then, - Is

Tyce

there an honor? I can't remember. Is there an honor, a diversion or anything in, in the master or grand master level?

Troy

Yeah. In the master, there's a diversion bird. there is not an honor at this point.

Tyce

Okay.

Troy

, just, just a diversion bird at this point. So, that would be the really the only- Type of trick or whatever you would... I, I wouldn't guess call it a trick- Yeah but then really the only thing that- Concept yeah, concept that you're throwing at them. but yeah, in, in the upland, they have to be steady wing and shot. And, and you're trying to get, you know, you're trying to get as many positive bird contacts as, as possible. And, and really the way that you're looking at it is, like, so if the dog goes on, you know, bumps a bird on the off wind side, you know, but doesn't chase the... You know, that's the other thing, they can't chase a bird.

Tyce

Yeah.

Troy

You know? So if the dog puts a bird in the air, it's gotta stop right there and watch the bird fly away. So in, in, in, in most cases, we consider that a master level contact. You know, if the dog- Mm- you know, accidentally bumps a bird, the bird flies away and the dog doesn't take pursuit- Mm well, the dog didn't do anything wrong, so you can't really down score the dog for that. -

Tyce

You just upwind side of it. Yeah.

Troy

Yeah. You're just, you're, you know, you're hoping that he finds another one and points it so you don't have to worry about that. But, -

Tyce

If they catch it, are they still out?

Troy

Yeah, if they catch it, it's, if they catch the bird- Okay it's over. Unless the, you know, unless something, you know, like an accident happens where the gunner goes to kick the bird and the bird flies right at the dog.

Tyce

Sure.

Troy

You know, that's, that's, you know, that ain't the dog's fault. So-

Tyce

Like a knee-jerk reaction,

Troy

you just- We're not trying

Tyce

to penalize-

Troy

It, yeah you know, we're not trying to penalize dogs for, you know, something that was an accident. Yeah. You know, that they had no control over, so.

Tyce

Do they- you said in the, so it's three birds certified, usually four advanced, and then was it four or five birds they put out in master now?

Troy

It's four. It's four for master as well.

Tyce

Four. Yeah. Usually they ideally get about three of those pointed at least? Is that kind of the deal?

Troy

Yeah, you're

Tyce

hoping,

Troy

you're hoping for that.

Tyce

All

Troy

of them, but- You know, you know, you're hoping for, the other thing, you know, but it's kinda like what we talked about, you know, so it's, it's get, if you have two really good points and then the dog bumps a bird, well, the dog didn't do anything wrong. Yeah. You know? So it's,

Tyce

you're, you're- He's showing that master level work. It's kinda the judge's

Troy

discretion. Yeah, you're, yeah.

Tyce

Yeah.

Troy

The dog showing a master level of control, and that kind of stuff, and, you know, you know, as long as the dog's not doing anything out there to, you know, to cause the dog, you know, cause the birds to fly.

Tyce

Mm-.

Troy

You know, like, they're not, they're not smelling the bird and then willfully f- you know, willfully flushing them, then-

Tyce

Mm-

Troy

you know, you can't really down score him for that, so.

Tyce

When I ran them, are they usually run and certified the land series first, then the water on the certified? Is that still kind of generally-

Troy

Yeah

Tyce

or do

Troy

they- Yeah.

Tyce

Yeah.

Troy

Yeah, the, it really re- And that's the case most of the time, but sometimes it kinda depends on weather, like if it's raining. Mm-. And it's gonna be raining for a while, they'll go in on water sometimes first just to get it out of the way, and that way the, you know, the, the birds aren't getting soaked when, when you're doing upland and- Yeah you know, 'cause a wet bird typically doesn't fly very well, and, you know, at certified level, he, like we talked about before.

Tyce

Yeah.

Troy

You know, you don't want the dog catching them if at, if at all possible.

Tyce

Sure. Do they, are they still doing a mixture of chukar and pheasant at the master level or the advanced, or is it usually always chukar? What do you guys use? What's going on

Troy

these days? I don't remember what year that, I don't remember what year it was, but they changed it all to chukar-

Tyce

Okay

Troy

, quite a few years back. So we don't, we don't house, we don't house any other kind of bird other than chukar anymore, which is actually, it's pretty easy. Chukar 10 times.

Tyce

Yeah.

Troy

You know, it, it-

Tyce

Better to plant, hold better point, yeah.

Troy

Yeah. Yeah, pheasants, as e- like- Mm I mean, I was running back, dogs back in those days when they were using pheasants, and, you know, it was always, you never knew what you were gonna get.

Tyce

Mm.

Troy

Sometimes you'd get up to the, you know, the dog would go and pick up the pheasant, and the pheasant was just laying there dead. You know, or, or the pheasant had taken off and ran away. Mm. You know, it was,

Tyce

it, it- Chukar and eagle didn't plant consistently, where you just hang them

Troy

upside down- They're a lot, yeah and sitting down and, you know. Yeah, and they don't kill each other- Yeah which is another plus. You know, like pheasants, you have a whole bunch of, you know, rooster pheasants, they tend to beat the heck out of each other and kill each other, so-

Tyce

Yeah

Troy

, that's, yeah. But then, so after the, so for the master anymore, so the, so it goes all the way up to a four-time grand master, and then once you achieve your four-time grand master, then you would, you know, depending on how many passes you have and all that stuff, then, then our national that we started, I think this is, this is year six of our national, which we call the Triple Crown. This year it's being held in Billings, Montana. Mm-. That's up there. and we have 60, 65 dogs signed up for that. I think the first year that we started it, there was 14 dogs signed up, so- Nice it's gaining a lot of traction. ,

Tyce

- How do you, how do you... Is it every year do you have to pass a certain amount of tests? Is it if you're a 4.5 GNPR, you get invited every year? Tell, tell me how you get invited

Troy

to that. Yeah, so that, that's, that's something that's changed a handful of times in the six years that the, that the event has been. so now, once you achieve your four-time grand master, so that, in that year, so like I have a dog that, i- if I have a dog that, that qualifies this fall,

Tyce

meaning- Sorry, do I make... Is, is it a four times GNPR now that they- N-

Troy

no. So they would be, like, so the, when the dog achieves its four-time grand master.

Tyce

Okay.

Troy

So, so if the dog achieves his four-time grand master, this fall or next spring, then it would be qualified for the Triple Crown next year.

Tyce

Okay. So it's- So then are they invited every year after that, or do you have to re-pass tests?

Troy

Yeah, so it, so the only m- the only way that you wouldn't have to re-qualify, which m- which the re-qualifying is two passes, - At the max level two passes within that, within that qualifying period. the only way that you- That's

Tyce

a year period,

Troy

essentially the only way... I'm sorry?

Tyce

That's a year period about, the qualifying?

Troy

Yeah, so it's, it's from, it's from the f- that, that fall, the fall of the Triple Crown, and then the next spring. Those are the times that you can qualify.

Tyce

Okay.

Troy

So the, the, the qualifying period ends when our spring test season ends, if that makes sense.

Tyce

Yeah, fall and spring, and then, yeah, that-

Troy

Yep

Tyce

okay. Makes sense.

Troy

, and then so if you have passed the TC the year before, you're automatically qualified for the next one.

Tyce

Okay.

Troy

, and then so, and then if you are a TC2, meaning that you've passed the Triple Crown twice, you're automatically qualified for life.

Tyce

Oh, okay. Okay, cool. Is there a cap on the Triple Crown, the TC, or what's that? Is there... Or what does this

Troy

look

Tyce

like? Nope,

Troy

there's no cap. Okay. There's no cap. You can run it, you can run it as many times or pa- you know, there's no limit, so.

Tyce

So, kind of when I was running it, the, there wasn't a cap on the GNPR, and so a lot of people would keep like, "Oh, mine's like a 10 times GNPR 12." Is that kind of, kind of TC, like it's a 12 times TC dog? Well- Or is

Troy

that the kind of- the, the biggest difference, the biggest difference with that, Tice, would be that the, the Triple Crown only happens once a year. Oh, okay. so, you know, like, they could be a 10-time Grand Master and keep running, you know, 'cause there's, you know, 23 tests a year or whatever, so, - Sure you know, however far you wanna travel, go for it, you know? But now, you know, anymore the Triple Crown is... You know, that's, you know, if you have that level of a dog, that's what most people are shooting for- Mm- you know, is to get that TC titler. And really what you're... You know, I think now the biggest goal will be to have that TC2, because then you don't ever have to go and re-qualify.

Tyce

Cool.

Troy

You know what I mean?

Tyce

Yeah.

Troy

So.

Tyce

To get a GNPR title, is it two Master passes still, or what's that?

Troy

, so that actually probably changed since you were involved, too. So back in those days, you couldn't go straight to Master, where now you can. Okay. You used to have to run at least Certified first.

Tyce

Elite Certified, yep. Mm-.

Troy

Yeah. So we don't have that anymore. You can go straight to Master. You can skip. So if you-

Tyce

Okay

Troy

if you go straight to Master it takes three passes to get your GNPR.

Tyce

Okay.

Troy

So the, the first two passes are for your NPR, and then the third one is for your G.

Tyce

I think back in the day, if I'm not mistaken, it was two passes. So I think they've added a pass to that, I believe. Yeah.

Troy

Well, they added that pass because before you, before you had to go out and run the CP.

Tyce

That's true, yeah. Okay.

Troy

So that's why

Tyce

they

Troy

added the pass.

Tyce

With the T- what's the TC test look like? Is it like- The TC- How many series is it? Is it two series or what, what is it?

Troy

Yeah, and so it's six series.

Tyce

Okay.

Troy

, it's six series, so it's three Retriever series and three Uplands.

Tyce

Oh, cool.

Troy

Over three days.

Tyce

Fun.

Troy

So the way that it's formatted is you'll run a Retriever series-

Tyce

Mm-

Troy

, in the morning, and then run Upland in the afternoon. and that being the case, you know, the, the, and the Retriever series is, a step up, as far as difficulty from what we do on a regular weekend test. So there's triples, there's double blinds, there's honors, you know, diversions, all that stuff is still all in play. - Oh, cool and so, yeah, last year's I think was- 55 dogs I think ran- Mm- and I think somewhere around 17 or 18 passed.

Tyce

So that's pretty, it's pretty good difficulty. Those are nice dogs I'm

Troy

sure running. It, it re- it's, it's, it's the real deal. I mean, as far as, you know-

Tyce

Something challenging, yeah

Troy

really it's, you know, so last year, last year was the fifth one, and I had not been able to, I shouldn't, shouldn't say not been able to, but I had been working really hard, along with a bunch of other people to get, the event really rolling, right? Mm-. 'Cause it's newer, and we just wanted to make sure that, that we have everything, set up to where it, it can be successful in, in the long run. that being the case, I was, one of my biggest chores of that was judging.

Tyce

Mm-.

Troy

, so I judged it, I had judged it three years in a row, up until that point. And, so last year was my first year that I got to run it. and I can honestly say It was the most, it was the biggest grind that I've been through as a dog trainer and, and, and as a handler.

Tyce

- That's awesome

Troy

it was very difficult, but it was very rewarding. You know, it's, and it's, and it's, it's something that we, I think a lot of us that have been in the APLA have, have been looking for, for-

Tyce

Yeah

Troy

a long time, just because a lot of times, you know, you could get a 410 GNPR on a dog-

Tyce

Pretty

Troy

cool but there are two.

Tyce

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you- It's

Troy

not what are you going to do with it, which, you know- I

Tyce

know. Usually you go play other-

Troy

Yeah

Tyce

you know, AKC or you're doing it at the same time, but this one you can keep going with.

Troy

Yeah. And, and which, you know, a lot of people still are doing that. They're still going and getting the Master Hunter- Sure or the HRCH and running any other kind of stuff like that. but now, now you have a national that you can, you know, for the pointing lab stuff that's, that's really, is a real challenge. And I think the biggest reason that the, that it's such a challenge, there, you know, the, the retriever stuff is, always, you know, going to be, you know, a challenge.

Tyce

Mm-.

Troy

, but then having to go and do an upland every day, you know, and have, and have those four, four bird contacts, and then be able to ratchet it back down the next day- Be a team player and go run another retriever series.

Tyce

Yeah.

Troy

It's, it's difficult. So, like, I guess the way that I kind of approached it last year was just kind of survive and advance, you know? Mm-. All you can do is deal with what's right in front of you. And there, there is no, like, we got to the end of the first day, and last year's in Michigan, it was in Michigan last year, and got to the end of the first day, and there was this, like, this wave o- over me that was, like, excited-

Tyce

Mm-

Troy

but also understanding, like, there's no such thing as a day one victory. Like, you're not, it's not- Not over till it's

Tyce

over

Troy

it's not a year over.

Tyce

Yeah. What do they get- It's not over till it's over what do they get when they pass the Triple Crown?

Troy

Oh, yeah. So you get a really, really neat plate, that, like a, kind of like a Master National plate-ish- Yeah type thing. you get a big ribbon, a big multicolored, red, white, and blue ribbon.

Tyce

Cool.

Troy

, and, and all kinds of, that, those, those are the big things. Yeah, sure. And then obviously- That's awesome then you get, then you get that added title to your name as well. So, and then, so the other- Is it

Tyce

TC? Is that the title?

Troy

Yeah, the TC. And so if you go and you look at a dog and it says TC1, they've passed it once. If TC2, 3, 4, whatever. Yeah. but the num- the number one thing that, that the TC is tied to, other than just being our national event, is to the APLA Hall of Fame.

Tyce

Oh,

Troy

okay. so- When you pass the trap- the Triple Crown, you know, you, you, you receive certain amount of points that go towards your Hall of Fame score.

Tyce

.

Troy

, so that's, that's, that's- And how many points do you have to

Tyce

pass it to get in the Hall of Fame?

Troy

, starting the year that, yeah, starting the year that the Triple Crown started, yes. Okay. In order to get in the Hall of Fame now, you know, you'd have to have a Triple Crown pass.

Tyce

Yeah. Okay.

Troy

Any dog that w- I think it's any dog that was born after year, after 2021.

Tyce

Mm-.

Troy

So.

Tyce

And the points accrue from, from the Master and Triple TC. The, it's accrual points- Yeah right? I can't remember exactly what that-

Troy

Yeah comes qualified. Accrual points. Yeah, it's an accrual of points. but not-

Tyce

Is it 100? I can't remember.

Troy

, it's, it varies b- based on the year of the dog's birth. So obviously it's, it's kinda set up, -

Tyce

Okay

Troy

it's set up because obviously there's dogs getting in the Hall of Fame that were before the Triple Crown started.

Tyce

Sure. ,

Troy

so the, the, the points are, they vary from, like, 2021 back to, I don't remember, I think it was the year that the 4X started. Mm-. And then the year, the year before the 4X started, it's a different number then. but a lot of that- I see. So then it, it's not just based on the points that the dog earns, it's also somewhat based on, their offspring. Mm-. So, say you have a dog that, say you have a dog that passes a Triple Crown and it has two or three offspring that pass the Triple Crown, you get points for that too.

Tyce

Oh, cool. Okay.

Troy

So.

Tyce

That's cool.

Troy

So it's not just about how good the dog is. Yeah. Sometimes it's about what they're producing as well and, and- so that was what, that was what we all agreed upon, when we wrote out the, the standards for our Hall of Fame or whatever, so.

Tyce

Cool. Yeah. I wanna touch on just a couple more things, then I probably, I actually need to boogie here and wrap it up, and we got a little late start with you, so I appreciate you. No

Troy

problem.

Tyce

Well, but I think we've touched on some awesome stuff so far. Tell me, this one I don't know if we talked about, the pointing lab, where did it come from? Does anyone know, or is it just more... All, my understanding, what I always believed, like, there's certain bloodlines that just had that inherent gene to hold a longer, basically a longer f- point before the flush, you know? Is that, is that kinda what... Does any of you, what, what's your opinion on that? Yeah,

Troy

I, yeah. It, there, there's lots of different, there's, there's a lot of different schools of thought on it.

Tyce

Mm-.

Troy

, m- I guess the school of thought that I come from, for the most part, is, you know, in order to make the Labrador Retriever breed, they've mixed about 27 different breeds.

Tyce

Yeah. Okay.

Troy

Yeah. And a couple of them definitely had point in them, you know what I mean? So, like you said, there's probably more, there's a f- there's bloodlines out there that probably were more tailored with some of that more solid point. Mm-. but anymore, to be really honest with you, Tice, is, you know, there's, we're seeing dogs all over the country that are out of dogs that are from, quote-unquote, "non-traditional pointing lab pedigrees" that point just lights out.

Tyce

Yeah.

Troy

So, I mean, th- there's probably more dogs out there all over the country that point, I mean, as far as labs go-

Tyce

Mm-

Troy

that nobody would even know it, or they would never admit it. Yeah. You know what I mean? So-

Tyce

Yeah

Troy

it's, it's out there. Like, we're obviously doubling down on it and saying like, "Hey, these dogs-" The gathering place. You know? Yeah. Mm-. Yeah, and other people are like, "Eh, my dog does it, but we don't really care, 'cause we don't even pheasant hunt." You know what I mean? Sure. Yeah, yeah. So.

Tyce

Yeah.

Troy

But it's obviously- I guess- you know, as far as the origins go, I- I don't know for sure, but my, my critical thinking tells me that it's the fact that the Labrador is made out of a whole bunch of different breeds, so.

Tyce

Yeah. No, it's true, I guess. You know, you hear some people, "Oh, someone probably bred it to a pointer or something at one point back in the day." And I mean, I guess that makes sense if it is made out... You know, the Labrador and all these breeds, right, were made out of these dukes- Yeah and whoever had them. They're like, "Oh, I like the characteristic of this," which produced that dog we have today. So it makes sense that they might have had threw a setter in there or something back in the day or whatever. Right. And, that's, and that's pulled out why certain lines maybe are genetics. But like you say, s- some of them, it just pops up, so that's cool.

Troy

Yeah, some of them are definitely stronger than others. I mean, you c- you know, you've been around it enough to- Mm- but, you know, being at a test or whatever or, or even training, you know.

Tyce

Yeah. Yep, yep.

Troy

Some, some, some bloodlines it's real thick, real, real strong. Mm-. And others, it's like it's there, but you know, you c- you know, you don't really have to doctor it up or anything like that, but- Yeah it's maybe not quite as strong as some of the other genetics out there, so.

Tyce

I'll tell some people when I'm training a pointing lab, like, "Let, let me evaluate the point and tell you if it's real- really worth trying to pull it out, you know, or if it's-

Troy

Yep

Tyce

just barely there." I'm like, like, "Just, just let the dog do whatever it does naturally," and- Yeah you know, and if it throws some points and you're cool with that, otherwise it could unwind pretty quick if we put a lot of, you know, time into it, type thing. Right. If you shoot some flush birds or whatever.

Troy

Oh,

Tyce

absolutely. You know? So. Yeah, that's

Troy

the, that's the number one point killer out there for pointing, especially for pointing labs, you know, because they're, they're bred to retrieve first, right? That's their first instinct is to retrieve. So

Tyce

that's- So it's like a c- it's like a bi- it's like fighting within, like I love to retrieve, but then I also got this point thing going on, you know.

Troy

Exactly. And, and so they're, you know, the, the, the reward for the dog, you know, is d- To retrieve you know, for a pointing lab is much different than a, a setter or an English pointer or even a short hair.

Tyce

Mm-.

Troy

They want the bird more than those dogs ever want to. So they're, they're, - Their desire to retrieve it is, you know, you're working on that balance, you know? Yeah. So-

Tyce

Yeah

Troy

it, it's definitely different training a pointing lab than it would be training m- more traditional breeds. - -huh but-

Tyce

For sure

Troy

a lot of the methodology is the same.

Tyce

Yep. Okay, well tell us about, tell us... Let's wrap it up here. Tell us where people can find information about the APLA, where they can find a, a pointing lab if they wanna get, you know, a pointing lab- Sure which is a phenomenal dog. Obviously you have the, the great family dog, the retrieve side, the point's awesome. give us a brief overview where you can find that.

Troy

Yeah. so, the, the best place to find it would be to go to the, American Pointing Lab Association. so websites- Websites which would be americanpointinglab.com.

Tyce

Yeah.

Troy

, there's a breeder section, there's a trainer section. there's, there's a section that goes into, local clubs depending on what part of the country you're from and stuff like that. and so that's a, that's a great way to kind of just get involved and kind of see the, see what the APLA is all about. So that's, that's their website. And they also have, the APLA also has a Facebook page. so you can go on the Facebook page, but on the Facebook page you're not really talking about litters or stud dogs or anything like that. Right. That's pretty much more about the events and, you know, people, different people bragging about, you know, what their dog is doing and, and all the different events and stuff, which is, that's really what it's about. you know, in the fall time you see a lot of pictures of people sitting next to their pointing lab with, with the, you know, the birds that they got to retrieve and stuff like that, so.

Tyce

Yeah. Awesome. Yeah, check out americanpointinglab.com. The... You guys have built, put it together, a new, nice website. It's very easy to use. Has all the, the test dates on there and the test rules and like, say- Yeah studs and breeders, so I'd really go ahead and check that out. But, -

Troy

Yeah, every- like everybody worked really hard to get the website. it's, it's really incredible I think. I mean, we've, we've had such a, a, we have such a great team of people that are working really, really hard to Just keep getting it, you know, just keep making the organization better and better and better, so.

Tyce

It's awesome.

Troy

While I'm the pr- I'm, I might be the president, I'm, I'm probably one of the smallest cogs in the wheel, so, -

Tyce

No, you're doing... It's awesome. It's fun to see it we're

Troy

really lucky.

Tyce

Folks, yeah, the APLA, I've, I ran a, I, I need to come out and run some more tests. I used to do a lot of it and I just haven't traveled as much for it, but it's an awesome group of people, and so fun to, the upland portion is so fun of it, to see the labs working and, and, and pointing that. Troy, anything else you wanna tell the audience or words of wisdom or anything before we wrap it up?

Troy

Our, like I said, the, our national event this year is in, Billings, Montana.

Tyce

Okay.

Troy

, just, just outside of Billings, Montana. It's the Montana Retriever Club, I believe is the name of the place that we're having it, and that is Labor Day weekend.

Tyce

Mm-.

Troy

It starts on Saturday, so it's Saturday, Sunday, and Monday. come on out if you have any interest in that. otherwise, you know, you can visit our website and look at, test dates on there. If there's a test in your area that you're interested in attending, reach out and, and we'll put you in touch with the people that are putting the test on.

Tyce

Can, can people come and just watch that at just

Troy

any- Absolutely, yep or just,

Tyce

okay

Troy

it's free admission, yep. You just have to, the only thing that we ask of you is that you sign a waiver and, and, then you're, you're welcome to come and watch any time.

Tyce

Cool, cool. Awesome. Well, I think we'll go ahead and wrap it up. Troy, thank you so much for your time, man. Really appreciate you coming on the podcast and sharing about the American Pointer Lab Association, and, and, we'll, we'll, go ahead and wrap her up. So thanks- All right and have a good day, Troy. Appreciate it.

Troy

You bet. Thanks for having me.

Tyce

Thanks. All right, bye.